--in Atlanta. I think even for ourselves we've seen really over the past five years that we've done some good work in one country. That's encouraged [INAUDIBLE] teams in other countries. And we've been rolling it out. And it has been a progressive process. Certainly, once we put a target on it, that helped. But I think a lot of those things, it's not one particular process in particular. So it's not just the training. It's not just having a goal, having a target. It's you've got to put all of these things together to really gain people's attention and know that we're focusing on that. And so it's taken a while for us, even internally within one business, to really pick up and take the learnings from one destination and take it to another. But I've now really seen that that's absolutely [INAUDIBLE].. We've set goals. We've trained people. We review where we have successes, how we've had those successes, and then that's followed. So I think the more any organization does that within tourism over time, others will pick it up. And we've seen it in other parts of tourism and other parts of sustainability that that's happened. And I can only hope that that will happen with this gender equality issue, as well. But certainly when you're outsourcing and contracting to so many other people, it will take longer. With your work on policy in Mexico, do you ever find that an industry push, for instance, from someone like Pete [INAUDIBLE],, helps you in terms of persuading maybe the powers that be to make the changes that you advocate for and sometimes perhaps see that you feel isn't strongly enough in terms of their persuasion powers until the industry comes in to help you from the outside? In my own case, what I saw at the local policy level from these magical towns that are spread out throughout the country-- there about 110 different municipalities. And it's very complex because each of them has their own view of what tourism should be. And what I learned from the case study that I analyzed for my PhD is that when there is leadership-- whether it's a man or a woman, it doesn't really matter-- but as long as there is leadership that considers that gender equality is important, then there has to be-- there will be a response. At the local level, it's really important to have people who believe it's important. Because if they don't do anything about it, then the local structure will not adopt any measures. And again, the example is very recent, but Mexico has had a very, very strong move towards making sure that there's a gender perspective at the national policy level. But it hasn't come down to the local programs. In this case, I think this is the challenge right now. And I think it's a challenge for many countries around the world, that they might have a national policy framework that promotes equality, but at the local level, either there's people with no training or there's no awareness or there's not any actual interest. But I do think that policy can shift if the industry shifts. Yes. There's loads of research to say that gender equality pays. We currently have 1,500 hotels. Now those hotels, most of them don't join us because they want to save the planet. They join us for various pressures from high level, from tour operators, from the government, and other pressures. So there is a balance we have to keep in how do we get hotels to join in into the sustainability agenda and how do we simply put them off, and how much detail can we go physically, as one certification scheme covering all of sustainability. Are you saying that having gender in there would put them off? No. It wouldn't put them off. What I'm certain to say is that they have certain limits as to how much we can put in one certification-- So it's not prioritized by travel though. I wouldn't say not prioritized. I think what it is about is that potentially we're not putting it explicitly in there, what with non-discrimination, with policies and procedures and management and an ethos of good business, our opinion is that we will have an impact implicitly. And explicitly, certainly on the [INAUDIBLE].. And we're getting in more and more areas, like migrant workers. There's always other challenges that we're trying to include. But for now, we cover this implicitly, meaning more hotels that are willing to join us right now and are willing to go the extra mile for us. For now, we're trying to increase, I suppose, increase standards. But I'm totally with you on your earlier comment. OK. My name is [INAUDIBLE] Martinez and I'm from Barcelona. I'm working for the city council in the tourism department. And [INAUDIBLE] here because I come specially for this event. [INTERPOSING VOICES] Thank you. And what I want to comment is this, what we are doing, we are not expert in equality inclusion. But we try to focus our policies on this. That's why we are here, to learn and listen and share. So [INAUDIBLE]. What we have done, we have a certification very close to yours, a Spanish [INAUDIBLE] certification. And the city has these certifications in 2011. And now we would try to move these certification that the city has to all big companies, organizations in the city. So we are creating a kind of certification that exhausted for big companies mid level between certification and just an agreement, a sustainability agreement. But we try to put this equality topic in one of the chapters. We work with [INAUDIBLE] do you know it? He works with Daniella Morena from [INAUDIBLE].. And we work with him to implement a checklist of [INAUDIBLE] work and also equality, gender equality. But we want to just figure out is what we can do to implement these actions in these criteria. Because I should probably, because-- sorry for my English. [INTERPOSING VOICES] Just have some ideas to put in practice, all of these we want to do. What we have to ask the companies. What exactly we have to tell them to do or teach them. What are the keys, especially in a magic destination as Barcelona. Well I don't know. We have a lot of people working there in person. And we have a lot of companies involved in this program. We want to share with them, but we need these skills. It's what we have to do. So if you have any sort of idea, just [INAUDIBLE].. One of the things that I've learned is that getting men into the household is as important as dealing with the women who are working. And I think that having policies which help and encourage men to take on and be part of the caring roles, and for that to be encouraged through wherever they are working. One company that-- not a tourism company, but that's been very successful in improving gender equality-- actually gave bonuses to the managers where men took flexi time. Because otherwise, it's always the women that take flexi time and it's always them that are having to deal with trying to balance their careers, their jobs, and the household. I think in the hospitality industry is something, as well, you know, reports. And if there is something to know that you can actually be protected. So I don't know what the city, its point of view on that, and you should have some kind of legal instrument to help [INAUDIBLE]. Yeah, I'm sure. But that's something else that probably need to be communicated and spread around about these kind of specific issues. Both in Cambodia and India, where we were very clear that one of the reasons that was stopping women was the family perception. And in both of those countries, we had some women who were local guides, so they could go out during the day and go guiding around. And they were fantastic at it. And we kind of talked to them about, do you want to actually go into a leader role? We actually traveled to different cities on our way, on longer trips. And what most of them were starting to come back to and say was, well, I would love to, but my family wouldn't allow me. So this is where we started in Cambodia and moved into the same thing in India, where it was , we're happy to provide information to your family about who we are as an organization, what our philosophies are. And in some cases, I know our general managers did actually get in touch with and visit or talk to the families about the type of organization that we are. So it was really just trying to reassure them that we would be looking after, we could adjudicate to all of our people. And I guess trying to make them understand a little bit more about who we are, what we do, what types of people their daughters would be traveling with, what the expectation for the role was, and the fact that we are a global organization with particular standards and expectations. So really going through that, so it would be part of the recruitment process, particularly where we knew there were people coming to us saying, I really want to do this, we felt confident that they could, and they now were starting to express concerns that their family were perhaps not that happy with them. Obviously, we work with over 1,000 tour leaders. So we do a lot of in-depth training with them. One of the things we've always trained on is sexual harassment, that type of issue, whether it's from leaders to passengers, passengers to leaders, or passengers who we're looking after just going out and about in some of the countries we go to, them being aware of their welfare. So it's always something that we have trained on. But particularly more recently, and with #MeToo I think there's a lot more awareness of things. And we see people then coming back with and reporting far more frequently when they're leaving the train and something's happened, or they've been out on the street or in the market and something's happened. So really training our teams to know how to respond to that. But also as part of it, and we started talking about how to respond to it on behalf of a traveler that you're looking after. But also how to respond to it on behalf of yourself, if you're feeling uncomfortable any way. And we've actually taken a step in the last couple of years, saying it's manager training. We test on the training and we get people to go through examples of what they would do, how they would respond to a variety of incidents. And we keep record [INAUDIBLE] of that. Because it is something that we're just seeing more and more awareness of and something we really need to take accountability for. Perhaps we could just round up by asking each of the panelists, before I thank them most sincerely on all our behalfs, how do we take this forward? What's one practical step we can all, with our different worlds, how do we move it on? I think an award would be a great way. An award for the most gender equal tour operator. I'm going to give it to [INAUDIBLE].. [LAUGHTER] | else has come close enough on forgetting my questions. But I would like it from Intrepid to be passed on to the next best after them, and for all of them to say, this is what we are doing. And to get that award out there. And I got it at World Travel Market. World Travel Market. All over the Travel Trade Gazette. All over the Travel Weekly and wherever else it can go. I was thinking just on the back of my head how some destinations are trying to attract the LGBT community and they become LGBT friendly. Well, something similar for destinations also, places where women can feel safe, where they can do the things that they like doing without feeling harassed. Slovenia got European green city of the year award. Why shouldn't Barcelona get gender equality [INAUDIBLE]?? I think it's all about leadership. And I go back to the point [INAUDIBLE] made earlier, which is I think industry partnering with government is a really good step. I think it really is up to industry to make [INAUDIBLE].. Because governments pay attention to business. And then we need leadership within business. But I don't think it should be focused just on female leaders. I think it should be focused on all leaders. And I'd like people to stop asking me about what's it like being a female leader. I'd like them to ask about leadership, and part of leadership is [INAUDIBLE].. From my perspective, also the industry perspective obviously, it's an award would be great. And it'd be amazing as an incentive for doing it. But ideally we raise awareness amongst industry, industry leaders, hotels, for example, to just understand that gender equality is part of being a good business, part of operating good and potentially having more satisfaction, therefore more guests. And if we had more studies, that would quantify that. That would give us more reason to go to hotels and say, listen, gender equality equals this and that, more hard data. If you could get that, don't know where from, but if you could get it, that would help us raise awareness amongst industry leaders.